The Citabria breed has an AD requiring a one-time inspection of the wooden spar where they have to check it for cracks. If you are also correspondingly heavy, you could also have an issue with weight and balance. Every time I think of trading up, I have a hard time thinking of selling a really good airplane , The Cessna 150 is the best simple and economical airplane one could ask to own. Very rugged, durable and dependable. The AG-5B is uncommon, with only 150 produced as compared to more than 3,000 Travelers, Cheetahs and AA-5B Tigers. Even if you dont use the Citabria for aerobatics, there is something romantic about flying a taildragger with a stick particularly one that is light and responsive to control inputs. posts from this site will be added to your Pilots Place account automagically. The later versions produced in the 1990s and 2000s will cost a bit more with prices in the $75,000 to $100,000 range. Does he have it on Barnstormers, Trade a Plane etc. If you are looking for a good all-round airplane thats easy to fly, can carry passengers, and will do most of the things any private pilot wants, then the Cessna 172 should be perfect for you. You get the sense of sitting at a low desk on a mountaintop. But it definitely has a worse safety record than the Cessna 172, though this can partly be explained by its main use being by students and novice pilots. It holds 52 gallons and has a range of about 700 miles. Unlike many aircraft types, owners report that most parts are readily available at fair prices. Even with limited power (compared to 150 and 180 hp versions), and the absence of inverted fuel and oil, there were very few maneuvers appropriate for beginning aerobatic students that the airplane couldnt handle.. Let us take a look now at these. Or you might prefer the Grumman AA5B, or perhaps the Diamond DV20/DA20 Katana, Ercoupe 415-C, or Diamond DA40 Star, all of which are said to be safe and easy to fly. ne cruised at around 115 mph and had about a 20-gallon fuel tank, Greg recalled. Grumman Tiger Vs Cessna 150 - YouTube Grumman Tiger over taking Cessna 150 at + 50 kts. The nosewheel looks flimsy but I spoke to a former Grumman pilot that says they are quite sturdy. :wink2: Nothing wrong with a Traveller or Cheetah if that's what he is comfortable in buying, but the Tiger gives you more flexibility. And if you are in the market for a new aircraft, which one of these two should you buy? assistance. Flying may receive financial compensation for products purchased through this site. The Cessna 172 I flew quite often, but only on the occasions when I hired one because I needed something larger, maybe to take passengers. Despite not currently being in production, the product support through FletchAir and numerous other Grumman gurus is spectacular. Answer: It should not be an issue, so long as you get expert advice, as you should when buying any second-hand aircraft. It continued to look good until it was sold. Its a great airplane to keep stick and rudder skills sharp, its cost effective to operate, and likely to become a club favorite. That was its strong suit.. Insurance for our 1979 Citabria (Model 7-ECA) was $870 in 89 and had risen to $2,195 when we sold it in 95, Greg said. Which engine did he install? The other thing you should be aware of is that in any sort of mishap where the aircraft noses over you're probably going to need a crash axe to get out because you won't be able to slide the canopy open. Gulfstream ceased production of all piston-engined aircraft in 1979 and the highly successful Tiger design went out of production after 1323 aircraft had been delivered. For more than 30 years, the 10-member club owned a Citabria. If you currently have an account on Pilots Place, your The operational costs of a Tiger are very similar to a Traveller or Cheetah. Have you forgotten your login information? The Cessna 172 Skyhawk is an American four-seat, single-engine, high wing, fixed-wing aircraft made by the Cessna Aircraft Company. One of the challenges is finding instructors who can teach in it whether its tailwheel or aerobatic. All spars are life-limited to 12,000 to 12,500 hours, underscoring the importance of having a detailed logbook history. To provide a more up-to-date cost perspective, the Wild River Flying Club in Osceola, WI operates a 1979 Citabria with a 150-hp Lycoming O-320. Theyre fast little airplanes.. I've never heard anyone say the sliding canopy leaks. If you have four people, filling up to the tabs provides 38 gallons of fuel, and you should be fine for most cross-country flights. Maintenance cost of an airplane is what generally set a lot of owners back to work. Not quite ready to buy yet, but for the right deal https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grumman-gang, Santa Rosita State Park, under the big 'W', E38F0B5E-2ED1-4B77-ADA8-8CE1FC154C26.jpeg, (You must log in or sign up to reply here. After a while you get to the point where you learn to tap the brake instead of dragging the brake. In the AG-5B, the 12-volt electrical system was replaced with a 24-volt system, and the refresh included several minor systems and aerodynamic improvements, plus improved corrosion coating. I hang my head in shame. Youre going to get more airspeed out of a Tiger than youre going to get out of most four-place aircraft in that category, Greg said. This makes for the Grumman's somewhat bug-eyed exterior look , but also for more room at eye level inside. Autopilot, 430W, PS Engineering audio panel, JPI 830, new paint and interior. Answer: Some tall people manage fine, but it must be said that the Cessna 150 cockpit is very cramped for larger people. Our 115-hpCitabriawas a fun, inexpensive aircraft that provided very stable air and ground handling for lower time pilots and entry-level aerobatic capabilities for more experienced pilots, Greg said. Help me understand the wing structure. I put about 1500 hours on the F model until I traded it around 1970.. Insurance companies are all familiar with both these aircraft, so their charges are likely to be reasonable. Because there are so many of them, and they have been around a long time, there are a large number of mechanics and engineers who are familiar with what needs to be done to keep them in good working order, and obtaining parts for them should not be an issue either; they are easily available, even for the older Cessna 150s. 115kts and 120kts respectively? They fly well and are comfortable. It introduced an enlarged version of the AA-1, equipped it with a 150 hp Lycoming O-320 and called it the AA-5 Traveler. Our Citabria wasnt re-covered during the time Flying Educators owned it, Greg said. CTAF audio is included. Find more About Us here! Bill & Carol Scott, who own the high-compression STC, don't have the resources to do the full testing and certification protocol themselves, so the modified Cheetah is artificially limited to 157 hp to conform to the original specs. Its very responsive. The Flying Educators isan equity clubfounded in 1962based at Ft. Lauderdale Executive Airport (KFXE). youll pay a premium based on your least experienced pilot. Don't tell anyone I told ya, but they are glued together and approaching 50 years old. It is, nevertheless, an item to confirm during a pre-purchase inspection. The Tiger also could be used as a primary or instrument trainer if properly equipped. Plenty stable for instrument flight, and yes I fly IFR in mine.. You know I looked for it briefly and couldnt find it. A number of Cheetahs can be found equipped with the 180 hp O-360, which is available as an STC. It continued to look good until it was sold. If you had a Tiger without the autopilot, its not going to be quite as stable as a 172 or a 182. Three or four of the 10 members would use it for aerobatics a lot. Greg said. The American Yankee Association is the original type club and holds regular events, including an annual convention. Since it is a tube and fabric airplane, its best to keep it in a hangar. Seriously, the acquisition cost is the least of his worries. site, simply click the Register button on the Pilots Place login page to sign So this might well decide things for you. And a little more economically., Mike from Aero on Demand added, Besides the RV, its the fastest 180-hp airplane out there with a fixed-pitch prop. Its the Are the LoPresti Tiger cowls in production yet? If you fly a Tiger for 20 or 30 hours and get into a Cessna 172, it feels like a truck., You cant go wrong with either a Citabria or a Grumman Tiger in your club. to this URL to reach the Pilots Place Forum. Former Flying Educators Club Secretary and Treasurer Greg Utley shares his thoughts on both aircraft. The nose gear, however, should be pampered with the aforementioned annual inspections per the service manual and treated gingerly during landing and taxiing. Its only got two seats anda relatively small baggagecompartment, so itwould be similar to taking a 152 on a cross-country trip probably not your first choice, but certainly capable for one or two people with no bags. If your club is looking for an economical aircraft that can serve as a primary trainer and a solid cross-country platformwith good performance, the Grumman Tiger is a plane you may want to consider. The Citabria wins this category over the Tiger without question. At the end of the day, Greg noted that most members fly solo or with only one passenger and, for that reason, the airplane has to be fun to fly, and it is. If not, then which is best? Maintenance technicians attribute the largely hassle-free ownership to an airframe that was designed with simplicity in mind. It is such an OWT there's even a guy who makes satirical videos about it. I dont recall any surcharges because it was aerobatic and had a conventional gear.. 2023 The Grumman Owners and Pilots Association. However, I would buy the plane just for fun. I don't know the details of his financial situation, but I think he could pop for a Tiger without breaking a sweat. Thank you for being a part of the Cessna 172 Club! Your login, avatars, posts and archives have all be relocated there. Among the most valuable resources available to Grumman owners are the bustling owners groups. Insurance for our 1979 Citabria (Model 7-ECA) was $870 in 89 and had risen to $2,195 when we sold it in 95, Greg said. We havent had any major problems with the Tiger., Aero on Demand said annuals without squawks. On average, I can see 100 MPH while spinning the prop at just around 2300 RPM., I have owned two Cessna 150s, an F model that I purchased new in late 1965 and an M model that I purchased 39 years later in the fall of 2004. This month we will compare the two aircraft the Flying Educators have operated in their 57-year history the Citabriaand theGrumman Tiger. Its roll rate is faster than a Piper or Cessna. Both are inexpensive to operate and maintai. You should know that, despite the above, there are possibly more similarities than differences between the Cessna 172 and the Cessna 150. The final variant of the AA-5 line was the AA-5B Tiger. They charge $90 an hour wet. AA-5 prices can vary widely, but when we exclude the most extreme examples in a recent sampling of listings, the majority fall in the $30,000 to $60,000 range. ). Canopy is great when taxiing in the summer and in the pattern. Our Citabria wasnt re-covered during the time Flying Educators owned it, Greg said. Mojogrip online https://mojogrip.net Add me on Instagram https://goo.gl/U7Fcca Add me on Facebook https://goo.gl/rbjE6N Back with the second half of Krishs interview. ). It s the same friendly, informative place for all things Cessna 172, now with a larger group of pilots and state-of-the-art forum software. Early models through the 1970s can be purchased starting around $35,000 with prices increasing to about $95,000 for a newer model produced after 2000. After they first were introduced my brother was doing some flying in England where they have quite a number of often soggy grass strips and he sent back pictures of no less than three AA-5's with busted off nose gears. Former Flying Educators Club Secretary and Treasurer Greg Utley shares his thoughts on both aircraft. , The specs list the cruise speed at 139 knots, but Greg said the. I "think" you can fly around with the canopy open.is that correct? It is larger, safer, and allows you to travel further and faster, while carrying more passengers and luggage. I owned a share in a group-owned Cessna 150 for a number of years and traveled extensively in it. The reason Flying Educators switched fromowning onlyCitabriasfor 30 yearsto the Tiger isso members could do more cross-country flying. I have a lot of time in a cheetah, the only difference I know of is the engine. Topping the range is the AA-5B Tiger, which entered production as a 1975 model and differed from the Cheetah primarily by being equipped with the more powerful 180 hp Lycoming O-360. However, the fun-factor overrode practicality from time to time.. Jason McDowell. The main parts supplier for Grumman aircraft is an outfit called Fletch Air, and I think theyre based in Houston, he said. In the year or two Greg was in the club while it operated the Citabria, there were no new members without prior tailwheel experience. Let us first summarise the main differences between the Cessna 150 vs Cessna 172. For more than 30 years, the 10-member club owned a Citabria. The Cessna 150-152 and light taildraggers have been the stalwarts of basic, entry-level aviation. But I'm not sure you can do the same to a Traveler. 1976 Cessna Skyhawk 172 Pilot's Operating Handbook, POH Manual - Used . If you dont have an existing login on the Cessna 172 Club When I considered both the Cheetah and Tiger and spoke to Grumman owners, most said to get a Tiger if I could swing it. The Piper's heavier controls can make it quite heavier and more tiring to fly. There is a reason why so many people fly the Cessna 172, and why it is said to be the most popular aircraft ever produced. Unless you want to go off airport. So please dont just leap into a Cessna 172 with no experience and expect it to be just like the Cessna 150; it is different. The Cessna 172, on the other hand, is still in production. That said, the Citabria is a good aircraft to use for tailwheel training. Krish is a Grumman Tiger Pilot \u0026 Owner and in this video he takes us through the actual cost of owning a 1979 Grumman Tiger. Accordingly, a good, reliable engine-monitoring system is a wise investment, and with the proper adapter, savvy buyers can download engine-monitor data to observe how a seller has been treating the engine. Helen is an expert in all things aviation! However, there are still a huge number being flown. If so did he sell it after 2 or 3 years and get into a twin? ). Handling is much better, I think, with lighter roll and pitch forces, and better-harmonized controls as well as a quicker roll rate. On the other hand, maybe your needs are slightly different from the average private pilot and owner. Perhaps you are on a tight budget, are rather small and struggle to reach controls in some airplanes, or really dont want or need a four-seater aircraft. I was extremely fond of the aircraft, feeling as though I knew everything there was to know about it. The system will I know better. 2. And a little more economically.. The four-place Grumman AA-5 family might be one of the better-kept secrets, offering the simplicity of a Cessna 172 while approaching the cruise speed of a similarly powered Mooney. In the year or two Greg was in the club while it operated the Citabria, there were no new members without prior tailwheel experience. 157 hp is less than 5% more than the original 150 hp, and 5% is the fudge factor the FAA allows to avoid recertification. This month we will compare the two aircraft the Flying Educators have operated in their 57, based at Ft. Lauderdale Executive Airport (KFXE), . You cant go wrong with either a Citabria or a Grumman Tiger in your club. The Citabria wins this category over the Tiger without question. Mojogrip online https://mojogrip.net Add me on Instagram https://goo.gl/U7Fcca Add me on Facebook https://goo.gl/rbjE6N Back with the second half of Krish's . ". I only have time in the AA1X series, the baby brother of the tiger, the canopy design I think is one of the better ones in GA, no issues, the free castor nose wheel was great for ground handling, nice shock absorbing and strong fiberglass mains, good fuel tank system, etc. He will be an excellent resource. send a link to set up your password on the Pilots Place site, and when you Among thedifferencesare enginesize,with variations from 115 hp to 180 hp, and whether the wing spar is metal or wood. Similar four-seat. Visibility is amazing. 2. Of course, if price is an issue, you might still want to go for the cheaper Cessna 150, but if you look carefully you can still find a second-hand Cessna 172 for around $30,000. AA-5 Traveler & AA-5A Cheetah Competitive Comparison, AA-5B & AG-5B Tiger Competitive Comparison, Pilot Familiarization Program Instructors. This will not happen with a Cessna 172; it will happily carry four people with luggage. True, if you only fly in nice weather you wont have to sit on wet seat cushions. Accordingly, AA-5s are quick to convert a light nudge of the yoke into an instant change in attitude. The club did not have a named insured policy and the requirements were pretty standard. Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by BellyUpFish, Aug 29, 2011. you have to plan for fabric recovery and fabric repair. It also has a faster speed and a better range. In the early 90s up to the when the Flying Educators sold the Citabria in 1995, the hourly rate was $21 wet, and the monthly club dues were $42. Grumman produced the AA5B Tiger from 1975 through 1979, and then American General produced the AG5B Tiger from 1991 through 1993. . The most popular of the Grumman series, the Tiger seats four, has a 180-hp engine, and burns 10 gph. Copyright 2023 Flying Media. And that was the main consideration.. I've never heard anyone say the sliding canopy leaks. The lineage began with Jim Bedes homebuilt BD-1, which first flew in 1963. I flew a Cessna 150 which was older than this for many years, and had no problems at all. She's published several books and articles on all things aviation and is eager to continue sharing her knowledge! Approachable Aircraft: Grumman AA-5 Series. It's kinda underpowered for what we were doing with it, luckily no one was heavy and the distances weren't far. Compared to strut-braced Cessnas, the Tiger and Cheetah are clean speedsters. While the early Travelers provide a slightly higher useful load than the other AA-5 models, often exceeding 900 pounds, Cheetah and Tiger owners enjoy increased pitch authority and a wide CG range provided by their larger horizontal stabilizers. Indeed, unlike most comparable aircraft, there are no moving parts inside of an AA-5s wingall flap and aileron actuation is achieved via easily accessible torque tubes upon which each control surface pivots. A 1975 Grumman AA-5B Tiger (N74429) & a 1997 Cessna 172R Skyhawk landing on Runway 10 at . The club uses, and pays $6,000 a year, but Greg noted that Florida is an expensive, to insure an aircraft because of hurricanes and the fact the state is highly litigious. Join Us | Member Benefits |News| Events |Contact Us. It could also be used for simple aerobatic training things like aileron rolls, loops, spins, and upset recovery. Enjoy!Aircraft: N474EPC172ROutro Song:Gold Skies - Liam Aidan The second part is correct, but the first is not. One letter called the new Cessna 172 "the rough technological and stylisticequivalent of a 1966 Chevy Novaat the price of two Mercedes." Another called the announced $124,500 base price of the new Skyhawk"incredible" and suggested that $75,000 or $80,000 would be appropriate. AA-5B Tiger. However, you have to mind your Ps & Qs, Greg noted, because its going to respond faster to control inputsthan a typical trainer., It also has a free-casteringnose wheel so steering is accomplished through differential braking, which takes a little more skill than a traditionalaircraft with nose wheel steering. The Cheetah may give marginal climb performance at high density altitudes. The Aircraft Spotlight feature looks at an airplane type and evaluates it across six areas of particular interest to flying clubs and their members: Operating Cost, Maintenance, Insurability, Training, Cross-Country, and Fun Factor. Some smaller pilots struggle to fly the Cessna 172, while some large people find they have problems in the Cessna 150, The Cessna 172 is more expensive to buy, and also to hire, than the Cessna 150, Although both types are very safe, the Cessna 172 is said to be significantly safer. At the end of the day, Greg noted that most members fly solo or with only one passenger and, for that reason, the airplane has to be fun to fly, and it is. just ain't that kind of aircraft. Go Cheetahs are around 850lbs. Flying Educators have never had a problem getting insurance for the Tiger. Still, I think the additional climb rate of the Tiger makes it a better choice, even if speed is not a major concern. Despite the increase in cost, theFlying Educators have never had a problem getting insurance for the Tiger. $37.09 + $15.58 shipping . Stalling and spinning are very benign in both types. Nope. It is about the same in terms of safety as other similar light aircraft. Ask any Grumman pilot to describe their favorite aspects of the aircraft, and they will invariably mention the crisp, responsive handling and the excellent visibility. The Tiger was designed by Grumman engineers and was first produced in late 1974 as the 1975 model.

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